There's a very interesting interview with writer Janice Galloway in the new issue of the 'Scottish Review of Books'. We get this (quarterly?) paper delivered on subscription but I'm pretty sure you can pick it up free in libraries round here too. For those of you further away I'm afraid you can't read the article online (not that I can see) but you can buy the current issue here if you're interested.
So what's interesting about it? I've only read one of Galloway's books so far (back here I read 'The trick is to keep breathing', published 1989) but I just love her forthright comments and total lack of literary scene blah-de-blah in this piece (interview by Colin Waters). She's very good on creative writing courses for example...in fact she's so good I'm going to quote that whole paragraph:
“For my sins, and for three years, I taught on a creative writing course at Glasgow University. I find myself cringing even using the phrase 'creative writing course'. Some students came because they want 'to be a writer'. And what's in their head somewhere is The X Factor: a race with glamour at the end, learning tricks that will turn you into JK Rowling. And it's all fucking mental. They want you to let them in on the secret – how it's done. As though I would know. As though anybody does. I want to be a movie star/I want to be a genius. Ho hum. As though these things are active career choices. Now, I want to act/I want to use my mind – that's a different ball game. Now and then you'd meet one of those – someone who wants to communicate to others, not gain something for themselves. It's rare though. Like hen's teeth. Then there are the last lot – those who are keen to write as obscurely and convolutedly as possible to prove something to themselves about being 'too good' for this world. Aspiring to be a lonely and misunderstood genius is a daft aspiration. Writing's gift is to reach out.”
Now I'm not saying people shouldn't go on creative writing courses...they keep a lot of writers in work and I'm sure they suit some people really well at certain times in their lives....but I also think the whole 'go on a writing course, meet influential people, get published' route is not the only way for writers to progress (nor should it be). I've had people say to me that I should go on one of the creative writing MAs “for all the contacts, that's how you get published...”. Go on it to write and think about writing, by all means... but for the contacts? Just thinking about it nearly breaks my silly little idealistic heart. And think what Bill Hicks would say. If he was still alive. Obviously.
Anyway there's a lot of other great quotes in the interview – it's well worth a look. And Janice Galloway has a new book out – there's a review of it here.
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34 comments:
Interesting! I'm one of those idiots who writes because it's what I do. Sure, published would be nice but I'd end up being that "recluse writer" who refused to go on publicity tours because I hate being in the spotlight.
Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone in the refusal to join a writer's group. If I need criticism I have family who'll do that for free. :)
Do you remember I spoke about a friend who isn't friend anymore? We fell out (ridiculously) because of writing classes...
It's not really something I ever really want to take part in. I taught myself how to play guitar/mandolin/ukulele, I taught myself how to make cartoons, I taught myself lots of things. And I like to "learn writing" by myself as well...
Well, Hope, writers' groups are a whole other subject...similar but other all the same. I have a little something about my encounter with a group back here. I've never been on a CW course...not to say I never will...but generally speaking (like DMck) I prefer to just get on with work at home. Sometimes I see that there are writers I like teaching on a course and I wonder how it might be to learn from them (maybe another time...maybe never) but it's not enough (so far) to entice me. I do like working in groups and going on courses - just not to with writing really.
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As someone who's just finishing a CW Masters (which -- although I got a a scholarship, thankfully -- costs £4000: rather a lot to spend on "contacts"!) I can tell you that they're what you make them. Many of my class just wanted to write more and better -- none of them have sought 'contacts', so they haven't made any, and they don't really care. It shouldn't be the first-and-foremost reason for doing it, as you say. It's helped my writing massively, really -- and I've seen huge change and improvement from all (except maybe one, who er... probably was in it for the 'wrong reasons', but I won't go into that) of my classmates. That's why people should want to do it!
For me, the main thing against writing courses* is that all the writers I love never went to one. If they managed to work it all out for themselves, why does the late 20th / early 21st Century need such things?
True, they never had mp3 players or the internet to take their minds off the actual writing... so maybe there is a point after all. ;)
* why is "creative" always hung on the beginning? Journalism is creative too... as is essay writing. And most (if not all) other genres.
Hi Claire
Yes I don't not agree with you (if you know what I mean)...as I said writing courses suit certain people at certain times in their lives. I find too much contact with any kind of writing business/academia an unhelpful influence (so far anyway) but that's me...and Janice Galloway, it would seem.
D - yes, yes and yes. In the unofficial more-open-than-open university of life that I run (oh, I do!) you can be professor of the arts (creative and otherwise). I guess you could manage the maths dept too. When you're not being king of the world. OK?
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Horses for courses, surely, as the original post suggests. Maybe some write best in isolation, some best with close, trusted support and some best in an artificial hothouse.
I don't think there's anything in the fabled writer's manual that says those who express themselves through words have to be any better human beings than the rest of us. Janice Galloway's acerbic comments on people who could be easily identified (certainly by themselves, possibly by others) suggest to me a certain lack of generosity. Perhaps they were on the course to learn not just craft, but about themselves.
And I don't always, or even often, read because I like the writer. I read because I like the work. Even if it's by a venal, connection-hungry numpty, or some other flawed individual.
Vested interest declaration: I'm off on a course myself soon. And I once claimed a prawn sandwich on expenses.
Titus - a lack of generosity from Galloway? Maybe. Maybe she's a writer who's better off getting on with her own writing and she never really wanted to teach in the first place. Who knows? Certainly not all writers are suited to teaching. Some can barely tie shoelaces. I like teaching but I'm too easily distracted to be a reliable one.
I still like the quote though. Is it confirming my own prejudices and making me feel better about the fact that an intensive writing course would have me in what passes for psychiatric care these days quicker than you can say "Hazel Blears' fake smile is cracking"? Quite possibly. I have considered writing courses (of course) but have always decided against them so far. Don Paterson teaches at the St Andrews one doesn't he? How terrifying! And probably fantastic too. Imagine how disappointed that face can look...I must post some more of his aphorisms soon.
And me? I continue to work at home for now - in isolation a lot of the time and tutor-free. C'est la vie just now...but things always change.
And really - a prawn sandwich? Yuk (she wrote, not very creatively).
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It wasn't prawn. I got cheese and pickle but claimed for prawn. Creative accounting.
Oh, you're evil...but I feel better now. I always think there's something really wrong about a prawn sandwich. Can't explain myself.
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Love that quote. Sounds all too true. I have never been on a creative writing course and never will.
What Janice says makes a lot of sense: X Factor writing drem! I want to be famous. I want to be the best.
Wee bit of humble pie is always good, i.e. ,I want to communicate, to be understood and too understand.
interestante.
Ah McGuire, always nice to have you visit! Is the weather in Italy any better yet? Any red hot young-guy-abroad action? I do hope so.
But as for the topic in hand...yes, I've been thinking about this all day...as I do the hoovering, as I type up bits of a new poem and then hang up laundry and feed the dog...
It is odd. Sometimes it feels that everyone you come into contact with wants to be or consider themselves a writer. Sometimes I think that is a good thing...people are expressing themselves, thinking about words and concepts, communicating...and other times I think it's just crazy...who will ever read all these books/words if everyone is writing all the time? Other times it just all confuses me (but then what doesn't?). Maybe I should keep off posts to do with talking about writing and stick to either (a) poems or (b) posts about music. This is all a bit circular...but I'm glad you like the quote anyway.
For now - back to the chores...back to the new poem.
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Hmmm.... King of the World and Head of both Maths and Arts departments? Sounds good to me! Do I have to fill in any sort of application form?
"...who will ever read all these books/words if everyone is writing all the time?"
Very true... Far too many books in this world. And far too many writers (some of whom don't actually write). It's possibly mass hysteria.
Really, I'd rather read. But I don't. (Said he hysterically.)
Application forms? They're for wimps.
Do you think we have bank holiday madness? I mean, look at me - one day with child off elsewhere and no routine to observe...chaos! Anarchy!
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And yes I think it is mass hysteria... to an extent. That or mass wisteria...I can't decide.
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Galloway's dead on target about the motivations Young Writers bring to writing courses. That whole Fame & Fortune ambitious thing. She's also right on target about those who have the attitude of wanting to communicate—those who want to write, not to pose—they are often the ones who will actually go somewhere with their writing.
This made me think about what I'd do if I were teach a writing course. Probably I'd start with a lecture like they give in pre-med courses, designed to scare away the dilletantes. Might not make you a popular teacher, but it would simplify things for all involved.
As for writer's groups, it's not at all like formal classroom environments. I've been in a couple of peer groups that were very good, very useful, very productive. But it requires having the right group of people, a willingness to be completely honest with each other without taking critiques personally, and a willingness to read as well as write. Most of these sort of groups grow up between friends who are writers, or in circles. They don't happen in the classroom for the most part.
Well, the quote doesn't actually say that the writers she taught were young, Art. Even on uni courses I think there is often a mix of ages on writing courses. So are the young any guiltier of this kind of thinking when it comes to writing? I'm not sure...some are, some aren't I imagine. I know I was a lot more bothered about what others thought of me when I was younger (in terms of work...in terms of everything). These days I care less and less...it's quite lovely. I think that life beginning at 40 might have something to it after all...
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Bank holiday madness it is... I know I'm suffering - I actually cut the grass today.
And mass wisteria. Much nicer. And easier to prune.
I sat in the garden D...much easier than gardening. Plus I worked on that last poem in the file (the one I showed you last week when you were local....the one I said wasn't finished). I am more pleased with it today.
And on a day when there is more crap in the news about the whole Oxford professor of poetry thing...I am actually quite glad to be a small-time, hardly heard-of poet who may never amount to anything literary-reputation wise! Who'd want to be part of all that? It's so ridiculous, the whole thing, and it reminds me (yet again) why university life didn't suit me. Now our university of life...that's altogether different!
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At the end of the day, whetever route you take - whether it's CW course, writing group or DIY - the most important thing is becoming a better writer. I've not taught on a CW course, so I can't comment on Janice's point, but I have been a member of two good critical groups for poets. I value good, constructive criticism for opening my eyes to what's good or bad about writing.
Oh the good, the bad and the illiterate...we're in Clint Eastwood territory now, Colin! But I know what you mean. Maybe I like DIY because I'm really good at being hard on myself (really good!). I've been hard at the Don Paterson aphorisms again too today...have I borrowed this one before (from 'The Book of Shadows')?
"I no longer fantasize about being caught. I have long since apprehended myself; I am disappointed in me enough for everyone."
They're just so good. Very addictive.
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I have very similar feelings about creative writing courses, my main feeling against them is that in some cases, the writers come out sounding 'the same', I also think some people expect a CW course to take them somewhere that they can't rightfully expect to get to unless they also put in a lot of their own hard work.
But as Colin says, the important thing is to develop / improve as a writer and for some people a CW course is the best place for that
Yes, CGP...sounding the same...that is probably another reason I have not gone down the writing course road as yet. I know that some (if not all!) of my poems are the other side of that invisible line that marks the acceptable poems from the unacceptable (in terms of, if you like, proper poetry..in terms of what many poetry tutors would say) but I'd rather keep at least some (if not all) of them that way. I like mess, I like the unexpected, I like the unpredictable, I don't like being boxed in by others' ideas of what is 'good' and 'bad'. You don't like x poem of mine...OK maybe someone else will...it doesn't mean it needs changing...I'll just write another one! We all have such different ideas of what makes a poem or piece of writing good or bad - every single one of us (plus what's good today can be bad tomorrow and so on...).
Maybe when our daughter is older and I'm less based at home I might want to venture out to a course...maybe. For now I find writing at home varied, stimulating, busy...I know some people do courses to almost give them permission to focus on their writing but I focus on writing all the time and never seem to have a problem with that. Whether people like (or approve of) what I come up with...that will change over time...I'll have my peaks and troughs like anyone else. I'll probably never be up for the Professor of Poetry business. Now there's a bloody relief! Poetry does exist outside universities after all...
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Great quote. I have a lot of time for Janice Galloway. I've only actually read The Trick is to Keep Breathing although I went straight out and bought her other two books (she only had three out at the time) which I then never got round to reading. I thought Trick was a fabulous book and it had a big effect on me.
Yes, I seem to remember a blog discussion of that book with Sorlil, you and me...some time, somewhere, back in the mists of time. It's not something you'd read for pleasure but (like the mouse in the Gruffalo books) I thought it was good.
I found JG's 'Foreign Parts' in a second hand shop and started it but never finished it. I think I just wasn't in the mood for it. We're going to France this year (where that book is set) so maybe I'll try and finish it before we go. I like the sound of some of her more recent work too.
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The 'good, the bad and the ugly' thing is an example of the 'Rule of Three' which seems to work in poetry. I learned that in a critical group.
And look - rule of three has its own wikipedia page! Everything you could ever need on t'internet (as we from the north of England call it).
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"Young" in the writing craft. Actually, I know what you mean. Most of the venues I've been in where there's a mix of writers, all ages have participated. But the calendar age and the writer's, shall we say, "skill age" are not the same thing. It's often very obvious who comes to the table having already done some writing, vs. who has not; and calendar age is not always a good clue to that.
On the other hand, the one advantage that I really notice coming from the older folks who are just starting out as writers, is that they have a lot more life-experience to draw upon. They almost never run out of subject matter, and they've learned the lesson that we all have to learn, that boredom doesn't exist for those who pay attention to life, and are engaged with it. My own creative writing teacher back in 11th grade had a saying that's stuck with me, "The kingdom of boredom is within you." I've often enjoyed workshops with older folks who are just starting out as writers: they have something to say, and they're hungry to say it. It can be quite inspiring.
In contrast, I've noticed that a lot of younger (calendar age) writers who come out of these college creative writing programs often have their skills really honed, and know how to say things very well—but they really don't have much to say. That's one of my perennial complaints about the equivalent college programs in the USA: they turn out a lot of highly-skilled writers with little to say. No wonder craft has become exalted over content in the past decade or so.
And I think you're right about life beginning at 40. There's a lot of truth to that. (BTW, some writers I don't think can really be appreciated till after one is 40. I'm thinking of May Sarton.)
Ah yes, nothing to say in a very clever way poets. Not my favourite genre...
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Well I knew the "rule of three" (it's not a rule) from reading fairy tales, nursery rhymes and other things. Don't need no crit group. ;) Interestingly, if we were mesoamericans, it would probably be a rule of 5. :)
I liked that last poem of yours as it was... I never said. But I liked the squirrel one more.
PS are there any exams in the university of life? Or is it all coursework?
Yes, but isn't that a major function of much academia...giving names to things that people understand and know how to use anyway?
Yes...well maybe the red poem will go back to its original form. It's driving me mad today.
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Exams...hmmm...well, I'm quite good at exams so yes, we'll have them.
Off with their heads!
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Seeing red at the red poem? Best let it go blue for a while... leave it outside for a week!
I don't mind exams either. I'll be the question setter!
And if people fail...what shall we do with them? Exile?
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