tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1564859019305736550.post8520446629717501097..comments2023-07-22T15:44:42.859+01:00Comments on More about the song - rambling with Rachel Fox: More about the carry onRachel Foxhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11803852725693518924noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1564859019305736550.post-57595133515004830562008-10-30T17:43:00.000+00:002008-10-30T17:43:00.000+00:00So turn up the volume. :)And I did see Snow Whit...So turn up the volume. :)<BR/><BR/>And I did see Snow White...wait 'til you see my blog.hopehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03306622656461205674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1564859019305736550.post-54646817310600327412008-10-30T16:00:00.000+00:002008-10-30T16:00:00.000+00:00Now that stress at work is really beginning to sho...Now that stress at work is really beginning to show!<BR/><BR/>I was just listening to the David Francey cd that I bought at the folk club this week. You would love it Hope. Francey hasn't lived in Scotland for years but he's still undeniably, tremendously Scottish.Rachel Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11803852725693518924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1564859019305736550.post-73034546441637726122008-10-30T15:54:00.000+00:002008-10-30T15:54:00.000+00:00I skipped breakfast. But I did see Snow White sta...I skipped breakfast. But I did see Snow White standing behind me this morning at the grocery store. :)hopehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03306622656461205674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1564859019305736550.post-15421559841456760702008-10-30T14:06:00.000+00:002008-10-30T14:06:00.000+00:00Now, Hope, are you sure you didn't have brandy on ...Now, Hope, are you sure you didn't have brandy on your cornflakes?Rachel Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11803852725693518924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1564859019305736550.post-68752270247853432822008-10-30T13:56:00.000+00:002008-10-30T13:56:00.000+00:00Sorry, I "backed" up over a couple of words and th...Sorry, I "backed" up over a couple of words and that post made no sense. :)<BR/><BR/>Here's a short poem for your collection Rachel to illustrate that funny and rhyming poems stick for all kinds of reasons...[and I don't even drink] ;) <BR/><BR/>Save the lectures; I chose this because it makes the point succinctly.<BR/><BR/> Candy is dandy<BR/> But liquor is quicker.<BR/><BR/> Ogden Nashhopehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03306622656461205674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1564859019305736550.post-91070388024332054882008-10-30T13:54:00.000+00:002008-10-30T13:54:00.000+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.hopehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03306622656461205674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1564859019305736550.post-35945123802253517992008-10-30T11:27:00.000+00:002008-10-30T11:27:00.000+00:00Lost a couple of letters in that last one!Lost a couple of letters in that last one!Rachel Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11803852725693518924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1564859019305736550.post-40887040551590997062008-10-30T11:26:00.000+00:002008-10-30T11:26:00.000+00:00I never knew that about yellow and lust. Interesti...I never knew that about yellow and lust. Interesting. But I did know about the Western-world-very-weird-and-awkward-about-the-sensual business...all too well!<BR/><BR/>xRachel Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11803852725693518924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1564859019305736550.post-86907491867430720312008-10-30T10:11:00.000+00:002008-10-30T10:11:00.000+00:00Asian erotica is a lot more sensual than Western, ...Asian erotica is a lot more sensual than Western, and the poetry reflects it. Octavio Paz dedicates a whole chapter to this point in his book essay "In Light of India," I think I might have mentioned it earlier. He makes the point that Indian sensuality is langourous, not rhythmically thrusting, and many of the best-known and still favorite erotic poets in the Indian tradition were women.<BR/><BR/>Yellow silk is part of this Asian tradition of sensuality, although coming more from East Asia. Pillow books in Heian-era Japan, for example, such as Sei Shonagon's, are full of lists of things which make life more pleasant, but not just superficially. Silk is incredibly sensual on the bare skin, and is often recommended for wearing before and after trysting. The color yellow is associated with lust, that golden glow the skin takes on when aroused, with the yoni; and probably with more specific things, if I bothered to go off and do some research rather than just recite from memory.Art Durkeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07463180236975988432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1564859019305736550.post-676083138047481232008-10-30T09:19:00.000+00:002008-10-30T09:19:00.000+00:00I was referring to your first paragraph (not your ...I was referring to your first paragraph (not your third) with that point about rhymes and funniness. I was saying that yes they can be funny but they don't necessarily have to be. And I'm sure you know that...but not everybody seems to...and that is one of my main points.<BR/><BR/>I think we're clear now.Rachel Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11803852725693518924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1564859019305736550.post-20665901009021737732008-10-30T09:12:00.000+00:002008-10-30T09:12:00.000+00:00I didn't say that rhyme was funny. I do think that...I didn't say that rhyme was funny. I do think that it "lightens the tone of a piece" which is what I said above. I think rhyme is an obstacle that needs to be overcome not simply because of its difficulty but because of the preconceptions that readers bring with them. And there's no need to go searching for serious rhymed poems. My favourite poem of all time (yes, you know the one) is in rhyme and it's perfectly balanced, just the right amount of dark and shade. <BR/><BR/>As for funny poems being throwaways, well, most jokes are, you've got it and then you want to move on. The best jokes transcend that and you sit there knowing what the punch line is before it comes but that doesn't matter. And that goes for the best funny poems usually because there is another element to the piece, it isn't relying solely on its humour but the humour is the leven.Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1564859019305736550.post-62059888455016740962008-10-30T08:52:00.000+00:002008-10-30T08:52:00.000+00:00Morning Jim.Now...firstly everything is about timi...Morning Jim.<BR/><BR/>Now...firstly everything is about timing! Love, war, history, sex...it isn't just humour that is about timing.<BR/><BR/>Next...I don't think rhymes are necessarily funny. A more academic mind would give you some examples...I might get to that later in the day. I like to (sometimes) make a rhyming poem really, really serious...just for fun.<BR/><BR/>I don't think funny poems are necessarily throwaway. Look at young Fiendish still reading old Parker. Some humour lives on (though possibly not Russell Brand's).<BR/><BR/>I think the 'fuck' does help 'This be the verse' and its popularity but I think mostly what people like about the poem is its simple honesty. Go out into the world and look about...people are still fucking up their kids on a regular basis!<BR/><BR/>My point about the term 'light verse' was more that people use the term if a poem is humorous without stopping to think whether the poem really is light or not. Humour can be light and/or dark but light is used to dismiss poems with any humour too often. Stuff being dismissed out of hand really pisses me off!<BR/><BR/>And, finally, of course rhyme is hard to pull off well but that's no reason not to try it. Not for me anyway.Rachel Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11803852725693518924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1564859019305736550.post-61909479351605922592008-10-30T08:38:00.000+00:002008-10-30T08:38:00.000+00:00I'm reliably informed by those who know about such...I'm reliably informed by those who know about such things that humour is all about timing. A lot of funny poems rhyme. Rhymes are funny, even bad ones if we know they're done deliberately, but there's a throw-away quality about that kind of poetry in much the same way as a comedian would throw away a joke. Jokes can be very powerful but they don't tend to have lasting appeal. Jokes also fall flat on the faces where the comedian's timing is off. Why does Larkin's poem stay in the public's consciousness? Personally I think it <I>is</I> the dirty word – you don't expect a frankly austere person like Larkin to talk like that (unless you've read his biography) and that adds real power to the poem, in the just the same way as the single swear word Beckett inserts at the end of <I>Rockaby</I> knocks the feet from under you. Humour is also a very effective way of delivering powerful messages. None of John Cooper Clarke's poems were all sweetness and light; they were all funny with a bitter centre.<BR/><BR/>As for 'light verse', well, I have a number of CDs with 'light music', the kind that was popular during those filler films on the forties and fifties and it's fine as background stuff but most of it isn't very memorable apart from those pieces like Eric Coates's 'By the Sleepy Lagoon' which became the theme of <I>Desert Island Discs</I>. And 'light verse' is much the same, inoffensive and eminently forgettable. It may be technically accomplished – much of the music played whilst Tom and Jerry chased each other around the place was phenomenally difficult to perform but do you remember any of it?<BR/><BR/>I think rhyme – we're talking full rhymes here at the end of lines – is awfully hard to pull of and the poem not sound trite. Rhyme is something that invariably lightens the tone of a piece and so a poet has to raise their game to include it and it not scupper their hard work. Opting to use rhyme also forces a poet to pay much closer attention to rhythm and that's usually where weekend poets really show themselves up, they bung in an extra syllable or two, to get the rhyme right and twist the rhythm of the lines to compensate. No, the two go hand in fist.Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1564859019305736550.post-15601265138006226952008-10-30T08:00:00.000+00:002008-10-30T08:00:00.000+00:00Compliment well and truly accepted. Ta very much. ...Compliment well and truly accepted. Ta very much. I like her poems a lot. She was mean... but somehow honest and fair...a clever combination.<BR/>xRachel Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11803852725693518924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1564859019305736550.post-43960127888397357302008-10-29T23:00:00.000+00:002008-10-29T23:00:00.000+00:00Lovely. Reminds me of "Unfortunate Coincidence" by...Lovely. Reminds me of "Unfortunate Coincidence" by Dorothy Parker:<BR/><BR/>By the time you swear you're his,<BR/>Shivering and sighing,<BR/>And he vows his passion is<BR/>Infinite, undying,<BR/>Lady, make a note of this —<BR/>One of you is lying.<BR/><BR/>As I think Parker was pretty much a genius, you should consider that a compliment ;)Fiendishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06427088675092430747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1564859019305736550.post-4374507639820183972008-10-29T18:06:00.000+00:002008-10-29T18:06:00.000+00:00Maybe I should try some of that Beckett prose then...Maybe I should try some of that Beckett prose then. I'm reading James Baldwin's 'Go tell it on the mountain' just now.<BR/><BR/>So Art...does yellow silk have a meaning I don't know about?Rachel Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11803852725693518924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1564859019305736550.post-15051410312422841612008-10-29T17:50:00.000+00:002008-10-29T17:50:00.000+00:00I was thinking more of of the prose works, rather ...I was thinking more of of the prose works, rather than the plays, but Beckett's work is all of a piece in some ways. I was also thinking of "Words and Music" and "Cascando," two short radio plays I've always liked. I wasn't thinking of the big theatre plays for which Beckett is best known, but for the smaller works like "Ohio Impromptu." <BR/><BR/>But back to sex: Sex can be funny, too. I used to get the magazine "Yellow Silk," which was a magazine of literary and artistic erotica. I recall quite a few poems in there that funny-serious in the way you talk about. Having recently moved, there are still things I can't find, but if I run across anything like this soon, I'll post it.Art Durkeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07463180236975988432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1564859019305736550.post-29611762903980978202008-10-29T17:06:00.000+00:002008-10-29T17:06:00.000+00:00I can't pretend I am a big Beckett freak - I know ...I can't pretend I am a big Beckett freak - I know lots of you are. I keep thinking maybe I'll grow into it as I get older (same goes for experimental jazz and lots of other things) but my tastes do change all the time so you never know. I'd hate to think I'm only going to like the same things for the rest of however many years I've got left here. <BR/><BR/>To be honest these days I don't go to the theatre much at all. I went loads in my late teens but since then not so much (lots of reasons to do with geography, transport, claustrophobia...). If I do go it tends to be something for Small Girl and I'm not sure she's ready for Beckett (although...she's...bizarre enough...maybe I should try her...). I did listen to some Beckett recordings that Jim posted but nothing set me on fire. Not yet anyway! Bit like Leonard Cohen...makes me want to shout 'oh come on...get on with it, do something!' And now, it's official...I am turning into my mother!Rachel Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11803852725693518924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1564859019305736550.post-24837737397121456972008-10-29T16:38:00.000+00:002008-10-29T16:38:00.000+00:00Something a lot of people miss about Beckett is th...Something a lot of people miss about Beckett is that he's very funny. It can be bleak and hilarious at the same time. It's how Beckett shows his pity and hope for many of his characters, despite their impossible situations.Art Durkeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07463180236975988432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1564859019305736550.post-44541852759505534792008-10-29T15:24:00.000+00:002008-10-29T15:24:00.000+00:00Glad you liked it, Frances, thanks.Yes - if you go...Glad you liked it, Frances, thanks.<BR/><BR/>Yes - if you going to give a full night of chest beating (or any other version of serious) then, as I say, it had better be good, really really good! Any examples of poets who are really good at writing and/or performing humour or non-humour or a successful mix of the two would be interesting... if anyone wants to make suggestions.Rachel Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11803852725693518924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1564859019305736550.post-20299120604396397622008-10-29T15:19:00.000+00:002008-10-29T15:19:00.000+00:00I certainly agree that a poem with a lighter mood ...I certainly agree that a poem with a lighter mood helps a lot in performance. There's a limit to how much chest beating an audience can cope with in one night. <BR/>Loved your poem.Franceshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12455584448055432913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1564859019305736550.post-55756787232464693292008-10-29T14:06:00.000+00:002008-10-29T14:06:00.000+00:00Well it's good to know it works on the page (or on...Well it's good to know it works on the page (or on the screen...) as well as read aloud!<BR/><BR/>And yes, failure is one of the subjects I write about most, I think. And that takes me back again to the Beckett quote at the top of Sorlil's Poetry in Progress page...<BR/><BR/>xRachel Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11803852725693518924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1564859019305736550.post-52152490652830530072008-10-29T13:16:00.000+00:002008-10-29T13:16:00.000+00:00Bravo! You had me grinning by the second line and...Bravo! You had me grinning by the second line and laughing at the conclusion of the first section.<BR/><BR/>Failure is universal. That we can fail at love is something we tend to overlook...part optimist, part prayer Don't-let-that-happen-to-me. You did the topic proud...perfect mix of bittersweet and humor. :)hopehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03306622656461205674noreply@blogger.com